When Do We Say Enough is Enough? NAD Probes into SWRC Pastoral Leadership Management Concerns of Certain Andrews University Student Ministers, Reports of Conflicts of Interest Surfacing on the Executive Committee

It has been reported that the North American Division is seeking information and probing into management of certain Andrews University students sent to Southwest Region Conference for a theological practicum for accredited completion of their university graduate work. These students were sent under the care of Pastor James Cox, Faith Temple SDA Church. Amongst the many complaints in leadership, students reported certain alleged abuses and mismanagement that resulted in what some would report embarrassing treatment of God’s chosen, ministers called to lead and pastor in our faith. Students reported that they were placed in such dyer straights that they had to sleep on the floor in less accommodating or appropriate conditions.

This particular class is a required accredited course for students to graduate within the program. Reports are surfacing that students were not allowed to seek opportunities to preach at other churches and network on their own behalf due to certain restrictions that Pastor Cox had placed on them as it related to appropriate communication with pastoral ministers within the conference. Sources say that students did not feel that they were adequately prepared or trained for field work and that the course did not meet their expectations. Sources also report that they shared deep concern of the conditions that they were subjected by the leadership under Pastor Cox.

Funds were provided to the host church and pastor to supplement the accommodation requirements of room and board for these theological students. It has been reported that inquiries have been made on exactly how services were rendered to these students and perhaps why such complaints would be lodged, as the funds provided should have adequately provided for their care. Pastor Cox has asked not to receive communication from this blog, otherwise a request for comment would be submitted. I welcome any clarification to this matter as it is of great concern to many constituents. I have received multiple requests by sources to share this matter with constituents.

The potential idea that students would be mistreated on representation of this conference is apprehensible and requires elaboration. It is an honor that Andrews University, one of our oldest institutions in this faith responsible for the global plantation of so many SDA ministers around the world, would choose our conference to host such a course. Are they now saying….Et tu Brute before they get a pulpit of their own?

My question to constituents is, when is enough….Enough? For the last twenty years we have watched the corporate home in Dallas of our beloved conference dominated by a select few of leaders. These few are responsible for influencing the dramatic movement of pastoral leadership, apparent financial blunders in property management, and a host of political cliques that seem to change as they see fit. It is reported, the “rat pack” is currently recruiting for the next election. How can we continue to support an administration that is fearful of the power and influence of this power network of pastoral leadership in the Dallas area? Do they not realize that their influence impacts more regions than just their church? Are they too focused on holding on to their positions in these key areas in an effort to prevent being moved? They serve and influence multiple committees such as executive, personnel, and the new “ad hoc” committee that most ministers outside of the “clique” do not seem to understand. A perfect example would be a clear conflict of interest held by the current ministerial director.

Pastor Gordon Jones, Ministerial Director for SWRC is currently serving as pastor for the Alpha SDA Church located in Austin, TX. It is reported that Pastor Jones requested to continue to serve as full-time pastor while also serving as full time ministerial director. One would ask why might this be a problem, this makes economical sense. The issue rests with the fact that Pastor Jones is also a voting member on the Executive Committee, as the pastor of Alpha. How can the ministerial director, a position designated in advocacy for pastors also have a vote on the committee? He is allowed to vote on matters that impact pastoral decisions when his primary role as ministerial director is clearly stated in our bylaws to have no vote. This is achieved due to his representation of the Austin area churches as pastor. He holds on to this position as a vote and influence on the committee. It is reported that he is predominately responsible for the massive moves and recommendations that have left many pastors abruptly relocated. How can pastors look to him as their advocate and spiritual leader when he has grave influence on their livelihood and futures? How can he serve two masters?

How could our conference have allowed such alleged abuses to Andrews’s students, when reports are surfacing that these complaints did surface to the desk of the president and were ignored. Well…it’s the four letter word, the elephant in the room wearing polka dots, FEAR. Our leaders are barely hanging on to their jobs and positions; they don’t want to throw rocks in a pond that they hope will remain still come elections in next September. Meanwhile, we are doomed to sit back and take these overt abuses of power and manipulative tactics to keep a minimal few leaders happy.

That’s the cold hard reality knocking us over the head every time we place a dollar in that gold plate every Sabbath. When will the executive committee step forward, set these wrongs right? Must we be on the cover of TIME magazine or in the news cycle of CNN before someone does something? Will it take a catastrophe before we wake up and realize that we do have the power to impact change NOW if we so choose? You decide.

Should any reader feel the reports from sources are inadequately reported please feel free to submitt a retraction request  or clarification to forgottenshepherdess@gmail.com

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82 Responses to When Do We Say Enough is Enough? NAD Probes into SWRC Pastoral Leadership Management Concerns of Certain Andrews University Student Ministers, Reports of Conflicts of Interest Surfacing on the Executive Committee

  1. I just want all of you to know I have read all of your comments. Please do not get discouraged if you receive no response from me. The purpose of this blog is to create a forum of dialogue and exchange ideas. I only intervene if the discussion renders itself unproductive. I am writing several to be published soon and need some help can anyone email me a complete list of the transfers and moves that have occurred since the committee passed the plan to redistrict the conference? Can anyone provide me with a cost breakdown of this large expensive project? you can email to forgottenshepherdess@gmail.com

    Thanks,
    FS

    Like

  2. THAT'S ALL FOLKS! says:

    THE MAIN EVENT:
    Tag Teams of the SWRC

    The main event of the greatest political wrestling match of the Southwest Region Conference will soon take place in September of this year. So get your tickets weeks in advance, and secure a ring side, box seat so that you will not miss this stellar championship wrestling match.

    There will be several contenders wrestling with different styles for the heavyweight belt, some who are young anxious wrestlers, and loquacious, over the hill gang style lunatics. At the end of the day, rising from the Cage, only one team will be standing with utter verbal mayhem since, there will be limited rules. The trash talkers will take the center stage on the floor of the Cage.

    So why is this wrestling event so intense? How about wrestling for 40 grand a year in travel, name recognition, and a legacy written in the annals of SDA history? I think I should throw my name in the match. I could make a preacher say, “Uncle” with my scissor like hold.

    WHAT DO I MEAN BY TAG TEAM? Well, by definition this kind of sport comes in a set of “a trinity of wrestlers who fight as a team, taking the ring alternately. One team member cannot enter the ring until touched or tagged by the one leaving.” With the refs’ (Union) turning their backs this could turn into a brawl. So get a barrel of popcorn and a giant big gulp from On the God. This “do or die” match could go to the final round.

    The event of the decade comes dubbed as a mudslinging event. Nasty! Will the Dawgs: Big Dawg, Lil’ Wimpy and Shirley the Poodle retain their championship belt or will they be penned to the canvass by the old school want-to-be, Frank, Dino and Jerry? OR will the upstart Fraternity Brothers of the south rise to fame, so named the Terminals comprised of the illusive, artistic Dr. Lucky, Mr. Malignant and The Incredible Tumor.

    They are too quick on their feet for the flat footed Big Dawg and his fading, old school wrestling dinosaurs. Boy the Terminals know how to spread the floor as they run and bounce off the ropes? Look at their youthful agility and speed. But do they have the wrestling experience?

    Right now these are the contenders, and this match is going to be dirty, hard fought down to the final bell. Stay tuned for special breath taking appearances of Shirley the Poodle in the Cage as the “Cute Little Pincher.”

    LET ME INTRODUCE THE TAG TEAMS ON THE MAIN EVENT BILLBOARD:

    GET READY TO R-U-M-B-L-E! To the far right and still champions are the growling Dawgs—Big Dawg, Lil’ Wimpy and Shirley the Poodle. Fighting for their lives they carry into the “do or die” arena baggage filled with a history of dirty tricks and self inflicted failures and disasters. Their portfolio of dirty misfortunes contains redacted red marks of over spending at the Camp Ground, a no confidence vote from the EXCOM, followed up with an historic monumentally “filled binder” of terminated workers, the worse record ever for an Administration in the books of the SWRC. Don’t dismiss the recent secret purchase of more property at the camp ground—an unfulfilled promise by Big Dawg who said that he would notify the constituents before such a decision. AND THE BEAT GOES ON! The specially requested size of the ring seems to be an advantage and enough room for the Dawg’s to move around with their dirty tricks. Their weaknesses are coming into the Cage flat footed and slow and easy to hit. I say they will go down in the first round.

    But beware how they have defeated lesser incorrigibles. Big Dawg knows how to “tag” Lil Wimpy and Shirley the Poodle when he gets penned to the canvas, about to be counted out. Beware fans, legends die hard, and Big Dawg is learning that even he cannot be forever young. The art of managing is more like wrestling than dancing. You see, managing the SWRC is a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don’t quit when you’re tired – you quit when the gorilla is tired. Unfortunately the roles are reversed. And Big Dawg has become the gorilla not the SWRC.

    Now to get Big Dawg off the canvas, Lil’ Wimpy has been known to sneak into the ring and clobber Big Dawg’s opponent over the head with the SWRC Championship belt. This is how he does it. The Wimp holds this belt for Big Dawg close to his chest. When no one is looking the wimpish loyalist conspicuously enters the Cage. Lil’ Wimpy ministers a thumping, clobbering thrashing to Big Dawg’s opponents until they are dazed and almost unconsciousness.
    Then here it comes. That crowd pleasing moment everyone is waiting for. To save Big Dawg from being “spiked” by the two other opponents, who are set to seal the coffin and ready to dive from the ropes—when no one is looking, Shirley the Poodle scoots her posterior into the Cage just at the right moment, then cleverly pinches Big Dawg’s opponent between the legs. Oh what a relief it is! Booya! OUCH! Let’s see that move in slow motion again. Wow! That will get Big Dawg off the Canvas. Fans watch this in slow motion a second time and you will see what I mean.

    But where is Lil’ Wimpy? You don’t have to worry about Lil’ Wimpy because you’ll never see him on the canvas because his “game” is to always be a side distraction to the opponents in the Cage and the crowd outside. He sneaks up on you and then POW. Lil’ Wimpy understands well that artistic temperament sometimes seems a battleground, a dark angel of destruction and a bright angel of creativity wrestling when you are running from trouble. He fights Himself! It’s this craziness? Let Shirley the Poodle do the pinching. Ouch!

    Then there is of course the infamous Frank, Dino and Jerry—emphasis on infamous. They have fought in the “Cage” of politics over the last 30 years and have never won a main event as king of the Cage. Will this be their year? Some Cage commentators have described them as dumb and dirty wrestlers. Or is it dirty and dumb?

    To illustrate my point here, take Dino for as example. If you were to x-ray his brain you might find that it comes from hell below or not of this world or unknown to human kind. Whatever! If Dino is now the strategist of the Pack he will win by any “means” necessary.

    The avengers of the past will use a portable table, led by Dino to knock out their opponents in underworld style. While the referees turn their backs (the Union) the Pack will jump on their opponents all at the same time with Dino using his famous choke hold. To end the match quick and advance, together they use the drop kick well and even secretly bring into the ring “grave dust” from Louisiana. Can you believe that!

    A final Team is the upstart Fraternity Brothers so named the Terminals. They conjure up some invented disease (Gossip) and secretly infect their opponents until they are so weak all the Terminals have to do is blow on them and their opponents will hit the canvas. The Dawgs, the Ratpack will never hear the count of 1 or 10. The Dawgs will really have to watch out because the rumor going around is they plan to bring some tainted dog biscuits into the arena, diseased and infused by Dr. Lucky, disguised as crispy Cream donuts. Big Dawg loves them’ syrupy biscuits and will never notice the poison. Big Dawg will be done before you know it.

    The terminals team leader comes educated from Gopher University. He went to the university and learned well. He earned a double major in cheating and deception, but his real major was wrestling. Mr. Malignant and The Incredible Tumor “go for” whatever Lucky says. Right now they are working on some real crap. If they put this poisonous stuff on their opponents while in the Cage of death they will be history—lights out folks.

    BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THIS WAY. One hearty laugh together could bring enemies into a closer communion of heart than hours spent on all sides in inward wrestling with the mental demon of uncharitable feeling. But they won’t try because of their historical materialism. So get ready fans, your chosen gladiators will wrestle to the end—and what for? Because their “desires will compel them to fight until the last man is standing to have the trophy of desire—while you laugh, frown or leave the arena with an empty feeling. It’s back to business as usual! You get what you vote for, more Main Event Wrestling.

    WELL THAT’S ALL FOLKS. It will be a momentous occasion. So get your seats early. Bring a lot of Rolaids—if you know what I mean. If anything, be consoled with this: War has rules, sometimes mud wrestling has some rules but politics has no rules.

    THAT’S ALL FOLKS

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    • ANNONYMOUS says:

      This is a great piece of work. I hope the constituents read it!

      Like

    • ANONYMOUS says:

      we think we know our ministers when they preach to us but we really don’t. POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY. It is unfortunate that the satire depicts some real truth about what Conference elections have come bebe….wrestling matches of hungry ministers climbing for power and control. The biggest climber in swrgc history lives in Austin. PLEASE DON’T ELECTY HIM SAINTS. Elect someone with real Christ like character. Presently I don’t see anyone in the office who has this quality. SWEEP THE HOUSE CONSTUENT!

      Like

    • VISION WORKS says:

      Dear Forgotten Shepherdess:

      GET BACK ON YOUR JOB FORGOTTEN SHEPHERDESS!

      I would like the readers of this blog to take a look at the February 2015 Southwestern Union RECORD. Turn to the section for the Southwest Region Conference and tell me what you notice? The Main Event just written above satirically illustrates the “who is in” concerning the SWRC September election.

      First, you see the Ministerial Man portrayed as IF the person of the year. Really! He talks of spirituality which is a good thing if it came from a spiritual person.

      Then not far from Mr. Spirituality we see the Man of the South. How many times will they print something from this Church almost every month by the same writer while other churches are “X’ed” over? How many times will the RECORD continue to “X” other articles? Not just one article but two articles of the same church. HMMM? You mean as the director of communication department you couldn’t find not one article in the entire SWRC worth publishing? Come on! There is something spooky about this kind of promotion! They are trying to get in the wrestling match laid out above.

      Finally, there is the article from the Communication person of the SWRC. It seems that those in the office along with the Man of the South, who claims he believes in no politics, are contenders for the Main Event.

      What you need to do is tell the people that this magazine is now being used as a means of self interested political positioning.

      Give me a break, please!

      VISION WORKS

      Like

  3. POLITICSRELIGION says:

    NOW PLAYING AT A THEATER NEAR YOU….

    THE POSTER BOY OF THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE….

    DINO THE LESS?

    ….H….no! Are you serious!

    Like

  4. ICE says:

    THE NEWS IS CIRCULATING AROUND OUR CONFERENCE THAT….

    The first town hall meeting sent officers under the bus. Stand for truth ministers and members and watch how our Conference will become better.

    It’s cold in here when the sun ain’t shining….and snow is falling on the SWRC.

    ICE

    Like

    • I JUST WANT TO KNOW says:

      How can leaders try to explain hell to others when the very people who believe in heaven, entrusted with God’s work, act, function and consign people to a present day living inferno of circumstances; turned just right by the minions, roasting their pundits with utter, torturous joy, using pitch forks of carnival foolishness, while simultaneously commanding their hellish imps to dip their finger in muddy water to be a gift to sooth their castaways thirsty tongue?

      Hello SWRC leadership, ye minions! Hello Dino!

      Like

  5. Anonymous says:

    Don’t Let Them Do It
    By The Prophet Haggai
    In 1997, our parliamentarian reminded us that it is the duty of the nominating committee and the conference constituency to fill all offices. Many of our church members who serve as delegates don’t seem to realize that they are to remain to vote until the constituency meeting concludes. Sometimes they accept the recommendation of the chair person who presides to allow the incoming conference committee to fill vacancies. Our people are so anxious to return home quickly, they don’t seem to realize they have abdicated their responsibility to others to complete the election process. I am sad to report that this clever ploy is often used to rid a conference roster of a staff member they want to oust.

    Unfortunately I have seen this happen on more than one occasion. When I attended my first constituency meeting many years ago, I heard a Union President suggest that the constituents allow the conference committee to complete the election since the hour had grown late. A delegate rose to his feet and shouted: “We are prepared to stay here all night if necessary.” Our own conference had a constituency meeting at one time that lasted until the wee hours of the next morning. We should also remember that once the attendance for a quorum has been met, the constituency meeting can officially begin. However, no matter how many delegates leave the meeting before its conclusion, those who remain no matter how few, conduct the business of the conference. Why should approximately forty people make decisions that should be made by hundreds? The right to vote for our leaders is a precious privilege. There, Don’t allow anyone, no matter how sincere, to decide what is best for us. Don’t let them do it. The words of the Prophet Haggai are certainly appropriate: “Consider your ways.”

    Like

    • MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH says:

      PROPHET HAGGAI

      I enjoyed the piece that you recently wrote. The issue that just addressed should be a great concern and properly addressed BEFORE this upcoming election of 2015. One person close to me just mentioned how in the past this kind of tactic has been used as a means to get people in office that otherwise would not have made it in through the nominating committee. No person including the Union President should hijack an election.

      Prophet I think it is high time that ministers “get off their feet” “get ready to meet” “get a resounding defeat” of the most obtuse administration ever to be put in office here in the SWRC.

      Yes, Common Sense laity and ministers need make put up signs as just mentioned below to send a “revolutionary message” that independence from a coup is coming. Prophet, are you for independence? Are you ready to crush an out of control Administration that has irresponsibly spent God’s money and fire good men for their selfish cause?

      PROTEST! “WE ARE NOT HAVING IT.” TELL US THE TRUTH” and the beat of irresponsibility will come to an end.

      PROTEST THIS SUNDAY! AT GRACE TEMPLE! MAKE UP YOUR SIGNS! DEMAND JUSTICE! DEMAND ANSWERS! DEMAND EXPLANATIONS! KEEP THEM THERE UNTIL THEY ANSWER FOR THEIR MISDEEDS AND WRONG DOING! DON’T LET THEM OFF!

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  6. COMMON SENSE says:

    INSTRUCTIONS FOR THIS UPCOMING TOWN HALL MEETING!

    MAKE UP THESE SIGNS THAT WILL READ AND YOU CAN HOLD UP

    SIGN 1: WE ARE NOT HAVING IT!

    SIGN 2: TELL US THE TRUTH!

    Are you for real?

    I have had the opportunity to read the minutes posted by the SWRC. If you take the time to read through the minutes you will discover that a lot of money has been borrowed and spent. Are you really for real? You need to answer this question.

    In about a week the SWRC will be holding a Town Hall meeting in DF. They are going to tell you a trumped up picture of how well things are improving. Things are not alright because they fired and relocated a lot of workers and within six months the top administrators with “hit man lucky” have hired the President’s favorites and placed them in undeserved areas of ministry at a real cost to all of us. In business they have a name for favoritism. Also, look at the map of redistributed workers and tell this ain’t political.

    When you get to the Town Hall Meeting PROTEST! You can do this by not letting them get away with obscuring the truth of financial misconduct. The red ink will reveal the truth. Most of the people who are going to attend this meeting will be lulled into complacency with “no shows” and unconcerned members. Are you for real? Ask the right questions and demand the right answers because MUCH is at stake.

    Here’s a good one: ask them what are their political aspiration for this upcoming election in September?
    Ask them did the Executive Committee register a no vote of “no confidence” and why? Ask them to show you on paper why they had to terminate and relocate employees Ask them why they postponed the upcoming election from May to September 2015.

    If the the Executive Committee said they were incompetent administrators why would you let them squeak by with their strategy to lull you to sleep with paper, leave in a hurry and laugh at you as an uninformed member who will allow workers and churches to suffer.

    At this meeting don’t settle for smiling wrong answers! Get a sign and write on it “we’re not having it” or “TELL THE TRUTH.” If everyone has a sign and you hold them up at various times during the Town Hall Meeting they will get your message. But if you do nothing, BUSINESS WILL GO ON AS USUAL? YOU WILL BE THE BIGGEST LOSERS!

    Like

  7. ICE says:

    How can the SWRC administration borrow 500,000.00 for the Incentive Plan with out the consent of the Constituents? Are the members CRAZY!

    Why are they approving miillion dollar loans for glass houses that are certain to break. Are the memers crazy?!

    How can the SWRC redistrict and relocate workers where incimination is evident as politcal gerrymandering for the next elelction. Are you Crazy Pastor?!

    MEMBERS AND PASTORS YOU OUGHT TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE AT THIS UPCOMING TOWN HALL MEETING.!

    Like

  8. ANNONYMOUS says:

    I GIVE THE SWRC ADMINISTRATION APPLAUSE FOR RELEASING A SUMMARY OF THE MINUTES FOR 2014

    I think administration should spell out what “summary means.” They should allow some means for the disenchanted to express their disapproval on any actions which I don’t see on their website.

    A LITTLE TOO LATE! BUT A GIANT STEP! THIS TIME YOU DID SOMETHNG RIGHT SWRC AND GOOD FOR THE CONSTITUENTS!

    Looking at some of the actions recommended and later vote by the Excom, I see a lot to question. But….that is FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

    Like

  9. A VOICE CRYING OUT OF ASPHALT JUNGLE says:

    I SUBMIT AND CONCEDE AFTER HAVING LOOKED AT THE CONSTITUTION THAT:

    …..the Executive Committee of the SWRC has the authority to change the date and time of the constituency meeting.

    However, I believe that the way the Constitution is worded IT should be changed and clear as to the length and ending time of offices. With out this being spelled out along with the conditions for a change would mean that Administration can change the elected time as they deem fit.

    AT THE LAST CONSTITUENCY MEETING WE VOTED A 4 YEAR TERM. NOT 4 YEARS AND TWO OR THREE OR FOUR MONTHS.

    CONDITIONS ARE NOT STATED UNDER WHAT CONDITIONS AND AUTHORIZATION SHOULD SUCH A CHANGE BE GRANTED; AND, OR DOES THE CONSTITUENCY HAVE TO APPROVE IT.

    It is supicious and raises ethical concerns as to why the President and/or Administrators would recommend a change UNTIL the late summer of 2015 since the recent financial collapse of the SWRGC. DON’T LET TIME BURY THEIR ATROCITIES IN “QUICK SAND.”

    LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD! YOUR VOICE IS POWER!

    Like

  10. A VOICE CRYING OUT OF ASPHALT JUNGLE says:

    Dear Golden Shepherdess:

    In fairness I am stating the Constitutional requirement concerning the Constituency Meeting Change. The argument that I have put forth is not really about whether the Excom can call a meeting or make changes. They have this authority in the interest of you the Constituent. But the this is a QUADRENIAL—FROM THE THE DATE OF THE LAST SESSION UNTIL THE DATE OF THE NEXT ONE THAT ENDS THE TERMS OF ELECTED OFFICIALS. TERM TO TERM. THE LENGTH OF THE TERM IS 4 YEARS–NOT 4 PLUS YEARS. TO CHANGE THE DATE WOULD MEAN THAT THE EXCOM WOULD HAVE TO GIVE THE CONSTITUENTS AN EMERGENCY REASON FOR CHANGE AND SHOULDN’T BE BASED ON A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PRESIDENT. YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY FINALLY DECIDED TO POST THE CONSTITUTION AND MINUTES. I WONDER WHY? THIS BLOG!

    ARTICLE II – Constituency Meetings 16 17 Section 1. Regular Quadrennial Constituency Meeting 18 19 This conference shall hold a regular quadrennial constituency 20 meeting at such time and place as the Executive Committee shall 21 designate. Notice of the time and place of the meeting of the 22 delegates representing the members shall be given by: 23 24 a. A notice printed in the official publication of the 25 Southwestern Union Conference at least four weeks 26 before the date of the session or 27 28 b. A method approved by the Southwest Region Conference 29 Executive Committee. 30 31 Section 2. Special Meetings: 32 33 a. The Executive Committee of the conference may call a 34 special constituency meeting, at a time and place it deems 35 proper, when: 36 37 1) It is voted by the Executive Committee; or 38 39 2) It is voted by the delegates at any constituency 40 meeting; or 41 42 3) It is requested by 50 percent of churches and 43 membership of the conference through their 44 churches in business session; or 45 46

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  11. A VOICE CRYING OUT OF ASPHALT JUNGLE says:

    DEAR GOLDEN SHEPHERDESS:

    AN OPEN APPEAL TO THE SWRC AND THE GOLDEN SHEPHERDESS

    Last year the President appealed to the SWRC Executive Committee to delay the Constituency Meeting from May of this year to September of 2015. This action honors the request of the President that mysteriously found its way to the Executive Committee from the alleged notion concocted from the false reasoning that the General Conference Session would interfere with the May 2015 Constituency date.

    If you want to be an informed constituent, you might investigate this present observation. A thorough analysis will reveal that the President might be worried about reelection in this coming May; that is, the possibility of not being returned to office for another 4 years. Not being returned as President in May would eliminate him from using his 40,000+ travel budget, along with special travel to live lavishly for 10 days at the cost of your tithe dollars; ALL EXPENSES PAID FOR! HOW SELFISH! The SWRC elected the current President and a month later he had Camp Meeing. No cancellation.

    Now I am not so stupid to say that the Administrators shouldn’t be afforded the priviledge of attending the GC meeting. But you should hold them accountable for their misappropriation of the funds that put our Conference in financial trouble leading them to terminate workers. It seems illogical that the Administrators should have such a priviledge in light of what they did to the workers in 2014 in the dark room of the SWRC Situation Room.

    Or, that the Constituency Meeting has been delayed for the “real” reason to allow the President a free ride to the GC to live on the “hog” of God’s tithe dollars after sitting over the worse financial crash in the last 40 years of the SWRC. Laity and Pastor: are you really going to give them a “pass” and let business continue as usual? And doing so let them off the hook allowing time to bury their atrocities of financial misconduct and the termination of workers to “get them out of a hole they dug?”

    Reader pleaese consider this. I don’t see anywhere in the Constitution that says the President of the Executive Committee can bilaterally extend the term of the President, Administrators, Departmental Leaders, Executive Committee or any other elected men or women with out the vote of “YOU” the constituent. If we believe in the Constitution and by-laws, a legal document, ALL ELECTED OFFICERS TERMS WILL END THIS COMING MAY. The Executive Committee does not possess the authority to extend their time–without the authority of YOU the constituents. AFTER MAY WE WILL NOT HAVE ANYONE WHO IS LEGALLY ELECTED TO LEAD OUR CONFERENCE.

    GOLDEN SHEPHERDESS….PLEASE GET THIS INFORMATION OUT TO THE UNINFORMED CONSTITUENTS.
    HOW CAN THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE LEAD IN A BOTTLE, LEAVING THE CONSTITUENTS WITH OUT A VOICE?

    Like

    • FROM WITHIN AND WITHOUT says:

      BLOGGER AbOVE AND BELOW…..

      I am a worker from within and without. Thank you for restating the facts concerning the constitution and the constituency date. From WITHIN the office is in shambles….every person for themselves. If only preachers really knew. From without our leadership has been dishonest concerning the facts and how they have used God’s money.

      Although I am not afraid I chose to remain annoymous because leadership is so scared of the future they will seek to terminate whoever they find. Up here we all know that the President’s future is up for grabs. I thought you pastors were suppose to stand for something when the evidence seems true blue. But you re turning your backs on all the wrong,

      To be fair to the issue you raised, the Constituency date should be reversed back to the original date in May 2015.

      The MM leader is a runaway truck headed to a town called “nowhere.” And if business continues as usual we will be nowhere after September. The President once said, “that he trusted a lot of people he should not have trusted.” We all heard him say that at Camp Meeting almost two years ago. How can he blindly put his trust in a runaway truck?

      Like

  12. EYE SPY says:

    THE BUTCHER OR BUTCHERS?

    There is so much written in SDA media in the present commenting against the social behavior of Conference leaders such as the SWRC. Some comment against bloggers like those on this one and deem them–not of God. I wonder why. Maybe the SWRC wants to control what people say so they can control how people think. If they control how people think then we will think the way they do–even when it is wrong.

    I ASK: HOW MANY MINISTERS AND WORKERS DID THE SWRC LEADERSHIP BUTCHER?

    Many adherents of the faith are fed up with uncontrolled administrators who declare through their decisions how righteous they are. Are they? The blogger who referred to them as “butchers” was really being modest. I am sure that SWRC leaders think of themselves as “Christian Butchers” when they are in fact spiritual “killers.” They cut off the head of SPIRITUALITY. THEY CUT OFF THE HEAD OF HONESTY

    PEOPLE! Don’t put these leaders back in office come this September. They do not deserve reelection. They have hurt too many people and no christian work should be like this. They are akin to Romanism and the Crusades of past history. PUT THEM OUT! GET SOME REAL CHRISTIAN SPIRITUAL LEADERS!

    Like

  13. Leroy Brown says:

    Big dog becomes the Butcher!Watch out Lil Wimpy!Shirley Poodle you better watch out and better not shout the Butcher aka Big Dog is madder than a junkyard dog!Now he becomes the Butcher!Even Frank, Dino,and Jerry are not safe from the Butcher!Like Hitler of humble beginnings rose to power unexpectedly and by the time people found him out, it was too late!While everybody is enjoying their Christmas bonuses and everything,the Butcher is planning their demise!Think about it people while you are sleeping,the Butcher is prowling, plotting ,planning to give everybody in the whole swrc of sda the shaft! Watch out for the Butcher!

    Like

  14. Leroy Brown says:

    Johnny C I was there at the so called Rally Day but after nobody showed up but a few, I decided against showing myself because in my opinion,the preachers were the ones who stood the most to gain or lose and if they didn’t show up why should we come to their defense?Why should a few be put on the altar of sacrifice while the majority sit quietly at home waiting and watching and hoping that the bad people will do good?I heard how scared they were at camp meeting to confront the administration but i bet someone that after that fiasco they would all show up as a committee of preachers ready to stand up for Jesus and to “do the right thing ” but I lost my bet that day and i had to pay up!
    My advice to you Johnny is not to rock the boat if there is not enough support from the scared preachers then after enough of their kind is sacrificed then maybe they will speak out!Maybe we can enlighten more laymen and they may want to do something but they seem to feel that if their pastor doesn’t say anything then it must be ok!Besides, we get our checks from another source or sources!My pastor is afraid to get an additional job and sometimes i anonymously help him and his family but i drop hints about him taking another job.He is so convinced that the windows of heaven are going to open up for him but i heard that his house is going into foreclosure!I say he needs a second job!In January the pastors will have to pay for an inferior healthcare plan and I wonder who decided on this plan that offers less and costs more and the workers have to have $300 taken out of their paychecks each month!Higher out of pocket costs,higher deductible,no yearly raise!Where is Al Sharpton and Jessee Jackson when the preachers from SWRC need them?I believe in tithing and offering but the preachers seem to be saying :The LORD helps those who help themselves”!So they take on second jobs but what else can they do?They drive these broken down little poor excuses
    for cars and then tell you if you give God will bless you too and wonder why nobody wants to put real money in the offering plate!Well, Johnny,something’s gotta give!I hear a bunch of laymen saying that they think an independent church is better all the way around but i hope that doesn’t happen anywhere in this country!Not after that Waco fiasco!

    Like

  15. johnny Cochran says:

    Has the “professor” had anything to say in his defense?If there is any truth to these allegations, surely he would want to tell his side of the story!UNLESS HE IS SECRETLY PLANNING TO SUE THE PASTOR!Oh no that must be the reason for his silence!I hope he just goes after the guilty!Enough innocent people have already been hurt and sadly disillusioned!The innocent always seem to suffer because “good” people stand idly by watching and waiting and hoping that they won’t be affected and oddly enough ,they are affected.So now is the time for all good sda Christians who saw these injustices, to speak up and speak out!MAYBE NONE OF YOUR KIDS WERE AMONG THOSE SEMINARIANS WHO WERE USED ,ABUSED,AND MISTREATED AND SENT PACKING WITHOUT A GOOD DOSE OF SOUTHERN HOSPITALITY!WHEN WILL WE EVER LEARN?MAYBE A RALLY DAY BEFORE YEAR’S END!LET’S PRAY ABOUT IT ,TALK ABOUT IT WALK ABOUT IT!LET’S DO SOMETHING BEFORE THESE MODERN DAY HITLERS FINISH DESTROYING WHAT IS LEFT OF THE SOUTHWEST REGION CONFERENCE OF SDA!

    Like

  16. johnny Cochran says:

    At last the time for judgment is here !Where do we stand on the facts of those abused students?Are there any pending lawsuits in the air?Or are we just blowing up smoke ?Where is the accountability here?Why doesn’t the ministerial dude do his part?They approve certain pastors to receive funds for evangelism and if they blow it so what while others are deprived of funds and baptize anyway!
    So ministerial man when do you step in and say something?I know to be politically correct, it would be detrimental to your cause to speak out against this injustice but where are your scruples and gonads for that matter?Seems to me you need to grow a pair before you talk about being a leader in the great swrc!In fact ,take your green card and go back to where you came from!
    To the constituents i say “forget about remember in September I say sieze the day in the middle of May!
    Do unto others so that they will stop doing it to you!”

    Like

  17. COMMON SENSE says:

    TO THE FORGOTTEN SHEPHERDESS AND ALL READERS….

    If a minister of any faith committed adultery, was found guilty of sexual addiction and so on and on, would he not be up for disqualification of being a minister? (This minister has done none of this!)

    Similarly, if a minister said that he would prefer to be in another denomination over continuing to pastor within the Seventh-day Adventist Church, would this not be also enough to disqualify this person from ministry?

    Is it not true that where your heart is so is your treasure?

    CONCLUSION: Why keep someone in ministry who would prefer to be in another denomination–HIS TREASURE?

    COMMON SENSE SAYS: If this minister could vote and allow ministers to be relocated, fired and retired why not let him go where his heart is? To keep someone who despises his own kind is allowing hypocrisy to exist–in other words…he no longer believes.

    His salary could save two part time workers who have no other interest except to serve the Seventh-day Adventist Church and who believe in all the doctrines it teaches.

    YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD IT ALL ARRANGED AND THEN….PUT THE FINGER ON THE WRONG PERSON AND PEOPLE….PEOPLE….BUT….. WE GOTCHA!

    Try some….

    COMMON SENSE

    Like

  18. TAKE NOTE says:

    TODAY’S TAKE NOTE:

    The evil doers are always people who see evil in those who stand for truth. If brother pastor claims that those who write something in an effort to obtain a clearer picture is so horrible, then he is blinded by baseballs covering his eyes. Why does he consider himself the BEST PREACHER; THE BEST EVANGELIST; THE BEST PASTOR that no one else can touch while all others are inferior? It is a shame that if you don’t fit into his machine of ignorance that you are considered worthless to him and God. Consequently, he can disrespect others with inflamatory rethoric with a frozen facial expression of a smiling devil.

    Get a reality check! Ask other if this is not true because ministers and members are offended and wondering when will this superiority complex inflicted on them will come to an end.

    We all pray for a change, a conversion through Jesus so that we can move on–but if you can’t see that this is you then–no change can occur. How can you say to fellow pastors that you don’t need them? Are not all pastors in need of each other? My brother read 1 John and find some love instead velour love!!!!

    This could apply to the Professor who certainly is by far free from innocense. It is cowardess not to defend yourself when you legacy is at state, to be remembered and spread by student abroad.

    TAKE NOTE

    Like

    • johnny Cochran says:

      https://theforgottenshepherdess.wordpress.com/2014/11/10/when-do-we-say-enough-is-enough-nad-probes-into-swrc-pastoral-leadership-management-concerns-of-certain-andrews-university-student-ministers-reports-of-conflicts-of-interest-surfacing-on-the-executi/?replytocom=2018#respond
      TAKE NOTE I like what you said and it really makes sense because there is no excuse for bullying especially from a church leader.The seminary students had every right to expect to be treated with good old fashioned Christian virtues after leaving their families to come to good old swrc for some field school evangelism.Sometimes a little or alot of success goes to our heads and we think the sun cant shine without us!Ego can be very destructive look at what it did to the devil!The solution cannot be found in getting rid of this pastor,no you must get rid of him and everyone that thinks like him!You cannot put new wine into old bottles he must be taken out root and branch!Doing this will take care of Lucky and others who have come here in the last 5 years or so and think they are entitled to the best while others who have been slaving for years get overlooked!Now is the time to deal with this before we get sentimental over the holidays!

      Like

      • Okay everyone here is my take on this issue…Pastor Cox is clearly wrong on this matter. I do my best to bring concerns to the public as best as I can when verifiable information is brought to my attention. I think this issue is being overly dissected instead of looking at the central problem….BAD LEADERSHIP…lets just call a spade a spade….everyone knows that Pastor James Cox, Pastor Stephen Brooks, and Pastor or “Dr.” Gordon Jones are running executive committee. In all fairness executive committee members who are lay people have familial and work obligations in addition to the business of the conference they don’t have the time to dive into these issues with pre-mediation like they do. The point of the matter is to get them to open their eyes and see that their blind following of this group has alienated a majority of the pastoral collegial group in this conference. What does that mean? It means that the pastoral collegiate staff have no faith and trust in the executive committee, that is very very bad this particular incident is only one of many that magnifies the type of behavior going on. The executive committee needs to hire and independent consulting to survey the morale of of staff in this conference and it lay people if they truly want to know the truth. They need to create a baseline for which to continue to work and conduct business…first question beginning…Do you feel constituency meeting should be moved back to May! EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE YOU HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH YOUR BASE IF YOU WISH TO CONTINUE TO SERVE MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHO THEY (WORKERS AND CONSTITUENTS) WANT TO FOLLOW!

        Like

      • (CAB) CLERGY AGAINST BULLYING says:

        FORGOTTEN SHEPHERDESS….

        Nothing that you have said in your opinion is not being rumored around the Conference. So let’s accept that the opinion polls have a negative view about leadership. My concerns are why they won’t call a dollar a dollar and get to the heart that some people are destructive with there behavior.

        However, I believe in hope that God will deal with evil. I don’t hate my brother but wish that he would change….the same for leadership. This is what the mission of the blog is about….CHANGE!

        What hurts me are the men’s lives that were disrupted. The outlaws who are out to kill ministers who are willing to speak their opinion or let them go by their opinion of their ministry…or relocated. I believe no one should make a public statement that they are more blessed than a fellow pastor because each pastor has a different potential to reach. SOME MEN ARE GOOD EVANGELIST while others CAN HOLD CHURCHES TOGETHER. So every pastor should have been moved to be fair instead of targeting those to retire or get rid of.

        If Bill Cosby is guilty of nothing then he has nothing to hide….the same with this Administration.

        CAB

        Like

  19. CLERGY AGAINST BULLYING (CAB) says:

    AB, ANONYMOUS….

    Did you read the my comments below? This problem is the result of workplace “bullying;” my way or the highway kind of “mental illness.” I agree with anonymous that knowing this pastor that he escalated and created this embarrassment.

    Why should the the Division, church members, fellow pastors endure this kind of mental illness–with out proper treatment? Get the pastor some professional help and put him some where, where he can do the least harm to people. He must have been bullied in childhood.

    If this were YOU would he vote to send you somewhere not to be heard of for a long time? The answer is….YES!

    (CAB) CLERGY AGAINST BULLYING

    Like

    • ICE says:

      Anonymous, CAB, Lay Person and Johny Cochran:

      I’M BACK OUT OF THE ICE BOX….

      Been reading the blog and I see some good dialogue. CAB and Anonymous below, that’s what I’m talking about. The pastor is responsible because he is the manager in charge. The Professor got iced. Andrews got iced. the students god iced.

      Lay Person, open your eyes and you will see the truth of what happens to pathetic preachers who do nothing, say nothing but expect something. There end will be nothing because they hide behind “robe” of doing nothing. They are ice cold and are in need of being thawed out.Stand for something preachers!

      When will the pastor get put in cold storage?

      It’s cold in here….

      Chill….

      ICE

      Like

      • RUFUS says:

        That pastor is not exscused for his part!He gets no pass for being abusive!Even the president gave him a pass which causes you to realize the pastor has enough dirt to bury the president!A full scale investigation is needed!We must get the facts and we must investigate the professor as well!

        Like

  20. AB (ANONYMOUS BLOGGER) says:

    This is AB:

    Thank you for your perspective….BUT!

    ….who is in demand for services? Andrews University is the proprietor. They manage, supervise, care for and teach the students. They are responsible for their well being. They are also suppliers who provide goods and services for the World Church all over. The local church/Conference is an entity in demand for services for evangelism reasons—souls.

    Andrews is the supplier and the local church is in demand. The professor is the manager, supervisor for the services rendered to the Church. The Professor can’t come to an area and refuse to render the services expected by the pastor by determining that they should be elsewhere doing other things when they should be at the local church rendering the services for the end product–souls.

    Would they have done something different if services were being rendered to a Brooks, Cleveland, Finley or world President? They would have marched to the tune of these men or face being sent home for not rendering to them the services expected.

    Souls dominate a Pastor/Evangelist as the end product. That’s it! So, the pastor is not into their grades, course fulfillment etc. Baptism—the end product dominates a preachers mind. It appears to me that when things went “sour” the pastor felt that he no longer had any “say” concerning the outcome and “relaxed” because he no longer had respect or control.

    AB

    Like

  21. ANONYMOUS BLOGGER says:

    Take Note CAB, Lay Person, Common Sense, Others:and Forgotten Shepherdess:

    Take a deep breath and breath! You could be all wrong. Has the Pastor done anything right in your eyes Forgotten Shepherdess?

    I am just wondering now why are you being so hard on my friend the Pastor. Was it really all his fault or was it the person who brought the students down to Dallas?

    Think about this? Pastor is notable evangelist in the SW and successful Pastor close to 40 years in ministry. Look at his baptismal rate. Who else can match him?

    On the Andrews thing…where are the facts? The Professor who brought the Students is responsible. The students were in the professor’s care. He should have had some kind of meal schedule and a written agreement along with a plan, Where is/was it? Did the Professor cooperate with the Pastor?

    Breath in and out, Breath in and out, Breath in and out, Breath in and out…and get the facts on both sides first…until then…I don’t think the blame totally rest just on the pastor here in Dallas.

    Thank you letting me express my OPINION.

    ANONYMOUS BLOGGER

    Like

    • It is totally ludicrous for the so called professor who claims to have been so badly bruised and used to want everybody to take up for him while he sts quietly feeling sorry for himself!Oh poor me!Did you see what they did to me?What kind of professor would take any students anywhere and let them be subjected to abuse and mistreatment?If the so called field school is not right or ready when you travel such distance then make a plan to get the heck out of there and get the students out of harms way!Something is very disturbing about a person who will continually let others disrespect him or her and their mission!We live in a litigious society and most people try to avoid lawsuits!

      Like

    • Let me be crystal clear each person involved was responsible for what they

      said or did!Even the students could have told their professor or the pastor in charge that they did not pay to come to this hillbilly style conference and be mistreated!The students should have called Andrews U or the General Conference or even the local police department or news agency!Now Andrews U will never let another Field School come to the Might SWRC!Who says there is no such thing as negative PR?

      Like

    • Anonymous says:

      AB, I indeed respect your opinion. However, when a patron walks into a store and by for some unforeseen reason take issue with a salesperson, clerk, cashier, product, etc., you go to the Manager/CEO in charge and file a complaint. The Manager/CEO (Pastor) becomes the “solve all solutions problems person.”

      In most cases the Manager/CEO investigates the matter and promises the patron, this will not happen again in-order to keep the patrons business. We all have been in the position of the patron one time or other. At least, I have.

      In this instance AB, the CEO/Manger/Pastor failed. If I were the patron from here on in, I take my business elsewhere. With what happened it pulled the lid off, and deeper issues surfaced– credibility, integrity, professional ethics and bad PR, and like the intro to this weeks Adult SS Lesson states, “dead bodies were taken.” We MUST DO BETTER!

      Like

      • AB (ANONYMOUS BLOGGER) says:

        This is AB:

        Thank you for your perspective….BUT!

        ….who is in demand for services? Andrews University is the proprietor. They manage, supervise, care for and teach the students. They are responsible for their well being. They are also suppliers who provide goods and services for the World Church all over. The local church/Conference is an entity in demand for services for evangelism reasons—souls.

        Andrews is the supplier and the local church is in demand. The professor is the manager, supervisor for the services rendered to the Church. The Professor can’t come to an area and refuse to render the services expected by the pastor by determining that they should be elsewhere doing other things when they should be at the local church rendering the services for the end product–souls.

        Would they have done something different if services were being rendered to a Brooks, Cleveland, Finley or world President? They would have marched to the tune of these men or face being sent home for not rendering to them the services expected.

        Souls dominate a Pastor/Evangelist as the end product. That’s it! So, the pastor is not into their grades, course fulfillment etc. Baptism—the end product dominates a preachers mind. It appears to me that when things went “sour” the pastor felt that he no longer had any “say” concerning the outcome and “relaxed” because he no longer had respect or control.

        AB

        Like

      • It is my understandinf that Pastor Cox recived funds to render these services and to allocate them to the students. How is he not accountable for that?

        Like

      • Thank you for your responses…

        Like

    • Anonymous says:

      AB, I have to respectfully disagree. I have been on both sides of the fence having attended Andrews (Seminary) as a student. I had to do Field School also, and it is a privilege to have a Field School at your church or in your district. the Saints go out of their way to make the student comfortable. It speaks on behalf of the Pastor and his Church. However, this time it did not go over well.

      For a “student” to claim abuse, at the Seminary; where students are not used to receiving much and from time to time struggle to make ends meet and make the grade; especially if when you are unsponsored, does not speak well for the Pastor nor his church.

      I will say this, surely, it will leave a negative mark in the students minds because we tend to recall our Seminary experience for many years to come.

      Like

      • AB (ANONYMOUS BLOGGER) says:

        ANONYMOUS:

        Thank you for exercising your right to disagree. If we can’t disagree how can we get to the truth? I think that we can AGREE that this was an embarrassment. But to blame the pastor for all of this cannot be justifiable.

        But let me say this, “We still don’t have the facts.” The Professor has not given an account of what went wrong. What agreements did the Professor have between himelf and the pastor or the SW administration. All that we know at the moment is hearsay. And that hearsay is coming from the students who could be exaggerating the facts. What the students wanted was M-O-N-E-Y back. Now I think you know Pastor….he ain’t gonna take no stuff! And if they (the students, Professors) didn’t start nothing there wouldn’t be nothing.

        It is rumored that the NAD is on Pastor’s back like honey on hot cakes. Why? They should tell us what Pastor did that was wrong or the students or the Professor did that was wrong for them to be on Pastor’s back. Wouldn’t you want to know what you are accused of so you could defend yourself?

        I believe that Administration should clear this matter up so that Pastor can be cleared from unjustifiable assertions without proper knowledge of the facts.

        MERRY CHRISTMAS

        AB

        Like

  22. A LAY PERSON says:

    I am still reading the comments, but I am finding out information as best I can. I have not asked a lot of Pastor’s, but of those I have inquired, they are very reluctant to talk. I will be trying to verify the information as it comes, to report back through this medium. There are of course Conference officials I’m sure who keep up with this unofficial news outlet. Since you have not disputed this information, I am assuming most of it is true. Since you don’t have to leave your name, what Conference office would you advise to call to verify information. Anybody can answer. By the way, if any Pastor’s say this blog is of the devil and don’t read it or comment, I would say, really? What you Pastor’s have done to each other, I believe I would probably say that is of the devil, it is just unbelievable! Still inquiring.

    Like

  23. CLERGY AGAINST BULLYING (CAB) says:

    CLERGY AGAINST BULLYING (CAB)

    IS THERE A BULLY AMONG US?

    By definition: “Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power.”

    While there are pastors who would certainly speak out against “bullying” it is paradoxical that they will not speak out against a fellow minister who by definition might be considered a workplace “bully.” Interviews with several Conference Presidents have expressed off the record that “a” pastor in our field they describe as a “bully” who engages in force, threats, coercion to abuse, intimidation and an aggressive dominating behavior to control, really does exists within our workforce. Something that Human Resources refuses to investigate and take action against.

    Some of these Presidents have sought out other Presidents from other areas within the NAD for a “pick-up” but the Presidents have stated openly that “No one else wants him” because of his bullying profile. My concern is why are Presidents allowing such a person(s) to abuse ministers, members and committee men and women? Why are they allowing an arsonist(s) to continue to set fires within our fellowship?

    As a bystander looking in from the outside, the first person on the list of those who were terminated should have been, the “bully or bullies.” We would have achieved greater harmony and unity presently if they were the first to go to resolve the financial crisis the SWRGC is in.

    IS WORKPLACE BULLYING EVIDENT IN THE SWRGC?

    I think it is and somewhat in a gang style way as other bullies are enlisted in the bully’s coral of a “nutty professors.” Consider what some experts say about a real problem within the workplace:

    “Workplace Bullying continues to expand its definition and includes more psychological attributes that people might usually associate to terms such as psychological abuse, psychological harassment, psychological manipulation, or psychological warfare as more information is collected or published.”

    “Bullies are scary, shocking, embarrassing and far too often tolerated in the workplace. Why? Because we don’t want to have to deal with them, we don’t want the attack, the conflict, the discomfort. So we either pretend they aren’t wreaking havoc or we grit our teeth and tolerate them.”

    Unfortunately this is the state of fellow victims of workplace bullying within our Conference. WORKERS ARE TOO SCARED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE BULLISH BULLYING AND THE NEED TO STOPS IT. DO SOMETHING PEOPLE!.

    Like

  24. take note says:

    This issue is not about students, or anyone from Andrews University, but about a person who can characterize other pastor’s and people in a negative way. who delares that he can’t be relocated yet persuade officials through unsubstantiated reasons why someone else is not fit to serve.

    Why should this person not be held responsible for what he wrongly says about people and other ministers privately or publicly? This blog is not evil but about the evil ways and statements made out side it.

    When something happens to you ministers you ASK FOR A DEFENSE BY OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU are afraid to defend yourself. This is why you get a back hand.

    Like

    • Anonymous says:

      Take Note, there is truth in what you are stating. Here is my analysis of worker security in SWRC. In yesteryear, past SWRC administrations defended workers (ministers and teachers). Study It! With the current administration, that security is no longer. To repeat, “that security is no longer”; Elvis has left the building on Worker Security in SWRC!

      Without going into details, just give study to recent changes in worker policy. You cannot trust administration, the ministerial director, you cannot trust senior pastors on the EXEC Committee, because the outspoken ones have ulterior motives and dominate the dialogue. May God correct me if I am incorrect! Recent happening have demonstrated all the above. Teachers are so fearful of loosing their jobs, when they are challenged, they become “deer in the head lights” and freeze-up.

      Therefore, the worker(Pastors & Teachers), are at best, with the current administration is VERY insecure. THAT, in my humble opinion is what has happened. And I, am just an observer who defends his/her individual turf because I have been pushed to do so.

      Yes, I love my Conference, but I long for a strong leader who has spiritual insight, with credibility and integrity; who will stand for what is the biblical. Trust me, those leaders are out there. I wish, SWRC Constituents come September 2015 would appoint a “head-hunting committee” to seek someone with those God given qualities if no name surfaces. But for now, workers (Pastors & Teachers) need encouragement!

      Like

      • TAKE NOTE says:

        Anonymous:

        I am encouraged that someone like you responded to my comment with such intelligence. I share your concerns and the thought put into your comment. If know one says anything problems cannot be changed.

        We both love our Conference and we both demand better leadership.

        KEEP THE FAITH–BABY!

        Like

  25. GET THE POINT MINISTRY says:

    FROM GET THE POINT MINISTRY

    What Is Ideal Organizational Leadership?

    GET THE POINT MR. PRESIDENT:

    MR. PRESIDENT: Organizations need strong leadership for optimum effectiveness. Leadership, as we know, is a trait which is both inbuilt and can be acquired also. Organizational leadership deals with both human psychology as well as expert tactics. Organizational leadership emphasizes on DEVELOPING LEADERSHIP SKILLS AND ABILITIES THAT ARE RELEVANT ACROSS THE ORGANIZATIONS. It means the potential of the individuals to face the hard times in the industry and still grow during those times. It clearly identifies and distinguishes the leaders from the managers. The leader should have potential to control the group of individuals.

    An ideal organizational leader should not dominate over others. He should guide the individuals under him, give them a sense of direction to achieve organizational goals successfully and should act responsibly. He should be optimistic for sure. He should be empathetic and should understand the need of the group members. An organizational leader should not only lead others individually but also manage the actions of the group.

    Individuals who are highly ambitious, have high energy level, an urge to lead, self-confidence, intelligence, have thorough knowledge of job, are honest and flexible are more likely to succeed as organizational leaders. Individuals who learn the organizational leadership develop abilities and skills of teamwork, effective communication, conflict resolution, and group problem solving techniques. Organizational leaders clearly communicate organizational mission, vision and policies; build employees morale, ensure efficient business operations; help employees grow professionally and contribute positively towards organizations mission.

    TIPS THE SWRGC CAN EMPLOY NOT FOR EFFECTIVE ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERSHIP:

    1. MR. PRESIDENT: A leader must lead his self. Only then CAN HE can lead others. He must be committed on PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL FRONT, and must be responsible. He must be A ROLE MODEL FOR OTHERS and SET AN EXAMPLE for them.

    2. MR. PRESIDENT: A leader must BOOST UP THE MORALE of the employees. He should MOTIVATE THEM WELL so that they are committed to the organization. He should be well acquainted with them, have concern for them and encourage them to take initiatives. THIS WILL RESULT IN MORE EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE EMPLOYEES AND ENSURE ORGANIZATIONAL SUCCESS.

    3. MR. PRESIDENT: A LEADER MUST WORK AS A TEAM. He should always SUPPORT his team and respect them. He should not HURT ANY EMPLOYEE. A TRUE LEADER should not be too bossy and should not consider him as the SUPREME AUTHORITY. He should realize that HE IS PART OF THE ORGANIZATION AS A WHOLE.

    PLEASE CHECK THIS FINAL STATEMENT OUT:

    MR. PRESIDENT: leadership involves all the processes and possible results that lead to development and achievement of organizational goals. It includes employees’ involvement, genuineness, effective listening and strategic communication.

    DO YOU GET THE POINT?

    Like

    • Pastor Marvel Goodnews says:

      Get The Point…I’ve got the point!

      Church members…it hurts me….

      I wonder how the inner circle of administrators, adhoc committee people and chosen advisers could let good men go as ministers, force into retirement senior pastors with little justification other than false notions that the staff has to be reduced and “workers are too old. To make the recent moves by the motley committee of “undesirables” means they had to paint workers negatively they wanted gone or moved to undeserved rural towns.This is exactly what they are complaining about concerning the blog and its comments especially to their members.

      BUT IT IS NOT WORKING! When an organization fails to communicate with those who it leads they will always look for other places to get the correct information because the organization that hides stuff is a “Lone Stranger to the people it leads.”

      Rufus and Dufus are the “Plumbers” of dirty tactics under a code of secrecy and the jurisdiction of Administration. This is why organizations lose trust and contributions because faith in it is shot. The “Plumbers” are certainly the “Three Stooges” controlling the Committee along with Rufus, a so named financial Strategist who operate under “Tricky Dick’s” rules. Dufus doesn’t have the heart to lead.

      Back to This. Where is the disciplinary actions on the pastor who has given our Conference a bad reputation? Is he really that big of a bully that a President is afraid of him along with Executive Committee men and women?

      Now that this is public by the pastor’s own implication, a good leader has to let the constituents know openly how you resolved this embarrassing circumstance and what measures have been taken to restore trust within the organization.

      The comments from GET THE POINT in the last two demonstrate what the President is failing to step forward and address, because he is afraid of a “bully.” When the actions of one person like the pastor threaten the entire organization disciplinary actions are necessary.

      BE FAIR SAM GREEN AND LEAD!

      ATHE NEW PERSPECTIVE

      Pastor Marvel Goodnews

      Like

  26. GET THE POINT MINISTRY says:

    FROM GET THE POINT MINISTRY

    WHAT DOES ETHICS MEAN TO LEADERSHIP?

    Ethics refer to the desirable and appropriate values and morals according to an individual or the society at large. Ethics deal with the purity of individuals and their intentions. Ethics serve as guidelines for analyzing “what is good or bad” in a specific scenario. Correlating ethics with leadership, we find that ethics is all about the leader’s identity and the leader’s role.

    Ethical theories on leadership talk about two main things: (a) The actions and behavior of leaders; and (b) the personality and character of leaders. It is essential to note that “Ethics are an essential to leadership”. A leader drives and influences the subordinates / followers to achieve a common goal, be it in case of team work, organizational quest, or any project. It is an ethical job of the leader to treat his subordinates with respect as each of them has unique personality. The ethical environment in an organization is built and developed by a leader as they have an influential role in the organization and due to the fact that leaders have an influence in developing the organizational values.

    An effective and ethical leader has the following traits/characteristics:

    Dignity and respectfulness: He respects others. An ethical leader should not use his followers as a medium to achieve his personal goals. He should respect their feelings, decision and values. Respecting the followers implies listening effectively to them, being compassionate to them, as well as being liberal in hearing opposing viewpoints. In short, it implies treating the followers in a manner that authenticate their values and beliefs.

    Serving others: He serves others. An ethical leader should place his follower’s interests ahead of his interests. He should be humane. He must act in a manner that is always fruitful for his followers.

    Justice: He is fair and just. An ethical leader must treat all his followers equally. There should be no personal bias. Wherever some followers are treated differently, the ground for differential treatment should be fair, clear, and built on morality.

    Community building: He develops community. An ethical leader considers his purpose as well as his followers’ purpose, while making efforts to achieve the goals suitable to both of them. He is considerate to the community interests. He does not overlook the followers’ intentions. He works harder for the community goals.

    Honesty: He is loyal and honest. Honesty is essential to be an ethical and effective leader. Honest leaders can be always relied upon and depended upon. They always earn respect of their followers. An honest leader presents the fact and circumstances truly and completely, no matter how critical and harmful the fact may be. He does not misrepresent any fact.

    It is essential to note that leadership is all about values, and it is impossible to be a leader if you lack the awareness and concern for your own personal values. Leadership has a moral and ethical aspect. These ethics define leadership. Leaders can use the above mentioned traits as yardsticks for influencing their own behavior.

    DO YOU….

    GET THE POINT?

    ADAPTED FROM: http://managementstudyguide.com/leadership-ethics.htm

    Like

    • Anonymous Preacher says:

      GET THE POINT:

      This is some very good information. I can use this at Church and in my next sermon. Most of us who are ministers understand that what Common Sense said is true.

      Common Sense who is the third one in Oklahoma? Is is your observation that the three failed ethics under GET THE POINTS ABOVE COMMENT?

      Like

    • GET THE POINT MINISTRY says:

      GET THE POINT

      The buzz word on the streets of ministers is a cumbersome word called ethics. Most leaders who are ministers who are questioning the ethical behavior and decisions surrounding the SWRC leadership suspect them of unethical behavior. While most of us feel that we are ethical could it be that we have never placed our understanding of ethics to any standardized tests?

      Let’s face it, most people lead by the teachers they are trained by or have observed. To GET TO THE POINT we are carbon copies of other leaders bad or good regardless of race or gender. This means that if we have no moral standardized precepts we have our own rules developed through the lives of imperfect teachers. I ask: Who trained our leaders at the SWRGC minister included? What moral standard do they test their decisions?

      Thank God for Jesus, the greatest leader ever known to the universe. If we could only follow and implement His standard–where would we be.

      Do you GET THE POINT?

      Like

  27. johnny Cochran says:

    Ethics?Who has been throwing that word around?

    Like

  28. COMMON SENSE says:

    I thought your comment was well written with profound clarity. If every minister came out of the closet and stated what they mean we could all find common ground and get on with the get on.

    The Southwest Region Conference has been less than ethical in matters pertaining to its workers. There approach is an old school method of the past executed in a postmodern world. If they believed in any kind of ethics we would not be in the current situation the Conference is now in. 18 workers lives have been turned upside down to cover their mistakes not mentioning the bye. bye to the part time senior pastors. Where was ethics when those workers needed fellow pastors to take a stand.

    I feel that the pastor and the ministerial director are guilty of violating ethical principles. The pastor mentioned certainly mistreated those Andrews students and is getting away with it free with no charge. To say that he was less than perfect would be unethical. He was the leader of the effort and leaders are responsible for the good and bad. A Leader is held to a higher standard because a leader is suppose to know what to do before and after he/she invites students to come to the Church and city. He is accountable. So he should just say he fumbled the ball on this one. It can be forgiven.

    DO YOU THINK THAT THE ANDREWS STUDENTS WOULD LIE ON THE PASTOR? You have to really be offended to write a complaint to Andrew’s Administration and the North American Division. When you spent your money for a class and feel you got nothing out of it because the class was not executed well, you would want your money back too or some pay back for being mistreated.

    As for the ministerial director….ethics requires of him to do his job and listen and defend the the interest of ministers and workers. He can’t operate a TEST CHURCH in Austin, displaying his ideas of pastoral leadership and at the same time seek the Presidency while claiming that he operates under ethical politics. When you covet an office and are campaigning for it politics becomes a dirty business. Or like the king of Babylon…. How Great Thou Art.

    If you want to be President just do your job well and you will get elected. Love people and you will get elected. Cease from being power hungry and you will be President. Don’t sell people out for chicken change and you will be President. Love Christ with all your heart and you will be President.

    The Word on the street is…. He sold us out for chicken change…. had it all arranged.

    The Constituency wants a person who is spiritual, honest and ethical who leads with integrity. Over the last year the pastor nor the ministerial director can claim substantial integrity as they face the termination of workers and the recent misappropriation of over spending at the camp ground. If any of these names come out for any reason from the small committee next September they will face a REAL floor fight at constituency meeting. Because Constituency meeting is ACCOUNTABILITY and the ministerial director will not be able to disassociate himself from the decisions of the Administration that he is presently working for. He was for the termination of workers. He was for the Voluntary Incentive Program and he was for secrecy–don’t ask and I won’t tell.

    Be informed that tt is known by many pastors that three people are presently controlling the Executive Committee. Two of them have been mentioned in this blog as the ministerial director and the pastor who is accused outside of this blog for the Andrews disaster. The other one lives in Oklahoma somewhere–you figure it out. A worker who came here with some baggage and decided the fate of many of the present moves–even though he wanted another chance in ministry. How can you hurt people when you wanted mercy? This is what is out on the streets and discussed within ministerial and laity circles.

    At the present just look at the recent moves. It seems obvious that these three and others–to me have strategically positioned pastors to control the Small Committee especially within the larger cities. Now if this is true which I believe to be, how unethical is this? Some Executive Committee member will tell you that this is true.

    It is also being rumored outside this Conference that some of the these people are trying to bring Calvin Watkins in for President. Why should this be a secret withheld from the Constituency? Declare your unethical intentions so that the Constituency can know well in advance and can vote yes or no.

    You know why they won’t tell you anything? Because they have a plan for themselves to either stay where they are or a position within the the glass tower. These same individuals have not learned from the last session the resentment felt by the majority of the constituents who saw their evil endeavors. And this is how we ended up with the current President. HOW SELFISH!

    And this is….

    COMMON SENSE

    Like

    • A LAY PERSON says:

      Thank you Sir! That is what I was asking for, you must be a minister. Stuff doesn’t just happen. Thank you for putting things in perspective. I am on a search for information and as I find it, I will post it here. What the constituents don’t know, is that by the time they get to a meeting, the prospective President will have already been decided and politics in play for it to happen. That is why it was important for them to move ministers around (I’m sure if someone investigates this we will find they moved their friends to places where they can count on their vote) so they can guarantee they move in the positions they have planned for. The next thing I’m going to get to the bottom of is why did they terminate workers and were they all Seniors. That is pretty much against the law. So, readers, if you think everybody knows about this you are mistaken. I talked to at least 10 people in the last 36 hours and people who you think are in the know, are not. The Administrators are pulling a fast one on us and they can always say it was voted by the “Executive Committee”. which is true, because they are empowered when we cannot vote. Lay People who know something, don’t just sit on the sidelines. Workers, if you were effected, say something, who knows you might get your job back. You probably will if you put the right person in office.

      Man, I cannot get over the fact that people got terminated because of financial mistakes of these leaders. No one works for 30 years – to get a surprise at the end of their career, that’s simply not just unfair, but not Christian at all. We gotta do right by these men of God. They don’t deserve this bad treatment. You know the saying, what goes around, comes around. If we just stand by and let them getaway with this, we are just as guilty and I don’t know about you, but I’m better than that. So, when you get a pink slip, you just go back and remember you stood by and let this happen when you could have done something and, you might be up next, for the same thing to happen to you. No job is safe today.

      So far, two Pastor’s have spoken. We do not need to know who they are, but they have verified some of this information. So, what can we do? I don’t know. Somebody who knows how to call a constituency meeting, please tell us how. I’m guessing we have to start with our Pastor and get the members to sign or request one. I don’t know, but somebody knows. And when we find out, let’s do it. The Pastor’s can only depend on us. These are the last days, I am sure. God promises not to forsake us. We must take care of his servants just as they did in the days of old., period.

      Like

    • ICE says:

      Common Sense and Layperson:

      You make common sense. And layperson you got real common sense. Both of you could not have said it better. You have put the ice on want to be future leaders. Nothings wrong with want-to-be but do you have the integrity to lead and serve? Will the rest of the laity remain in the cold storage of continued awful leadership? It’s cold in here…. Lay people get some ice picks because the ministry is frozen in time….scared to come out of the cold into the warmth of the future.

      Has the carpetbagger from Oklahoma joined the Ratpack? It seems that Frank, Dino and Jerry have a new recruit.

      Johny Cochran, What have you to say? Are you on ice? Come into the cold storage of stupid decisions, desecrated ministry, where Big Dawg, Lil’ Wimpy, Shirley the Poodle live. I can only extend the invitation once because once in you are locked up.

      Beware, stay with Jesus and you can never grow cold and remain ICED!

      Chill….

      ICE

      Like

  29. Anonymous says:

    Lay Person, some of what we are currently dealing with was brought to the attention of those in leadership from the very beginning. It’s hurts to see how things are spiraling. Time, always, has away of showing who “we” truly are. That is certainly happening now. I can say more, but I choose not, because it swells my eyes to know that this “stuff” is viewed as laughter by some. Well, it’s Gods work.
    Years ago, Dr. Calvin Rock wrote an article entitled, Whatever Happened To Ethics?” I still have it in my files and refer to it periodically. In this article Dr Rock is speaking to Leadership; particularly SDA ministers, calling us to high biblical standards, he states in one portion, when we fail to do things in an “ethical” manner, ” trouble does last always.”

    Again, It saddens me to see what’s going on now, but in all honest, I saw it coming. It is said where there is smoke, there is a fire burning somewhere. Well, there is a lot smoke in the SWRC now. What gives me comfort now that “stuff” is being disclosed is this text:

    “if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face andturn fro. Ther wicked way, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and HEAL their land. This land, SWRC, IS IN NEED HEALING. My God will straighten it out, because I believe n my prayers. Am I minister in this Conference? Yes, I am, and it hurts to see what is going on.

    Like

    • That is so powerful! Thank you for having the courage to speak up please encourage your cohorts to do the same.

      Like

      • BTW I may to use some of your phrases for a deeper account of more specifics on the Andrews students…it has been requested some the information I received from sources is extremely embarrassing to us as Adventists, conference members, and just plain ole believers in souther hospitality.

        Like

    • Can you inbox me Dr. Rock’s article forgotten shepherdess@gmail.com

      Like

    • COMMON SENSE says:

      Anonymous:
      I thought your comment was well written with profound clarity. If every minister came out of the closet and stated what they mean we could all find common ground and get on with the get on.

      The Southwest Region Conference has been less than ethical in matters pertaining to its workers. There approach is an old school method of the past executed in a postmodern world. If they believed in any kind of ethics we would not be in the current situation the Conference is now in. 18 workers lives have been turned upside down to cover their mistakes not mentioning the bye. bye to the part time senior pastors. Where was ethics when those workers needed fellow pastors to take a stand.

      I feel that the pastor and the ministerial director are guilty of violating ethical principles. The pastor mentioned certainly mistreated those Andrews students and is getting away with it free with no charge. To say that he was less than perfect would be unethical. He was the leader of the effort and leaders are responsible for the good and bad. A Leader is held to a higher standard because a leader is suppose to know what to do before and after he/she invites students to come to the Church and city. He is accountable. So he should just say he fumbled the ball on this one. It can be forgiven.

      DO YOU THINK THAT THE ANDREWS STUDENTS WOULD LIE ON THE PASTOR? You have to really be offended to write a complaint to Andrew’s Administration and the North American Division. When you spent your money for a class and feel you got nothing out of it because the class was not executed well, you would want your money back too or some pay back for being mistreated.

      As for the ministerial director….ethics requires of him to do his job and listen and defend the the interest of ministers and workers. He can’t operate a TEST CHURCH in Austin, displaying his ideas of pastoral leadership and at the same time seek the Presidency while claiming that he operates under ethical politics. When you covet an office and are campaigning for it politics becomes a dirty business. Or like the king of Babylon…. How Great Thou Art.

      If you want to be President just do your job well and you will get elected. Love people and you will get elected. Cease from being power hungry and you will be President. Don’t sell people out for chicken change and you will be President. Love Christ with all your heart and you will be President.

      The Word on the street is…. He sold us out for chicken change…. had it all arranged.

      The Constituency wants a person who is spiritual, honest and ethical who leads with integrity. Over the last year the pastor nor the ministerial director can claim substantial integrity as they face the termination of workers and the recent misappropriation of over spending at the camp ground. If any of these names come out for any reason from the small committee next September they will face a REAL floor fight at constituency meeting. Because Constituency meeting is ACCOUNTABILITY and the ministerial director will not be able to disassociate himself from the decisions of the Administration that he is presently working for. He was for the termination of workers. He was for the Voluntary Incentive Program and he was for secrecy–don’t ask and I won’t tell.

      Be informed that tt is known by many pastors that three people are presently controlling the Executive Committee. Two of them have been mentioned in this blog as the ministerial director and the pastor who is accused outside of this blog for the Andrews disaster. The other one lives in Oklahoma somewhere–you figure it out. A worker who came here with some baggage and decided the fate of many of the present moves–even though he wanted another chance in ministry. How can you hurt people when you wanted mercy? This is what is out on the streets and discussed within ministerial and laity circles.

      At the present just look at the recent moves. It seems obvious that these three and others–to me have strategically positioned pastors to control the Small Committee especially within the larger cities. Now if this is true which I believe to be, how unethical is this? Some Executive Committee member will tell you that this is true.

      It is also being rumored outside this Conference that some of the these people are trying to bring Calvin Watkins in for President. Why should this be a secret withheld from the Constituency? Declare your unethical intentions so that the Constituency can know well in advance and can vote yes or no.

      You know why they won’t tell you anything? Because they have a plan for themselves to either stay where they are or a position within the the glass tower. These same individuals have not learned from the last session the resentment felt by the majority of the constituents who saw their evil endeavors. And this is how we ended up with the current President. HOW SELFISH!

      And this is….

      COMMON SENSE

      Like

  30. Glad to be back thank you.unfortunately as we look at the state of our beloved conference, I want to know who let the dogs in?We have literally gone from bad to worse and destroyed everything that our predecessors built up!No one wants to claim responsibility but this is the absolute worst!Who is minding the store!Who is destroying us faster than we can reproduce!We are self destructing!We bring in anybody who screws up in other conferences and then put them in charge of making decisions for men who have spent most of their lives in service to this conference!We shoot our own wounded showing what a low self esteem we have!Is anybody gonna wake up before it is too late?!

    Like

  31. ICE says:

    ON ICE?

    I am calling on someone who has the facts concerning the terrible treatment of those students. My pastor had to feed some of the students because they were hungry and had no food. Honest to goodness! This embarrasses our Conference. Can someone release some facts about this? Let’s BREAK the Ice and get to the facts. IT’S COLD IN HERE!

    ICE

    Like

  32. What part does the ministerial director play in this?Is he a part of the problem or part of the solution?It is time for him to stop double dipping and become fully involved as ministerial director or pastor of the alpha church!All these crazy things happening show that nothing is happening positive for the pastors and he is lucky enough to just get by unnoticed and unchallenged!This shows that perhaps there is no need for a ministerial director!Therecertainly is no accountability!
    This healthcare plan that the workers are forced into paying for is inferior to the one “dubbed the Cadillac plan” and it costs more delivers less and the workers have to pay for it!Who is advocating for the workers in general and the pastors in particular?Was any research done to see if there was a better and more affordable plan?We teach and preach an excellent stewardship plan but we settle for anything that sounds good without doing the research.Unfortunately it looks like we are traveling full speed on the road to perdition!Somebody stop this train or we will all be lost!

    Like

  33. A LAY PERSON says:

    Anonymous, I am Lay Person again. I am sure I can speak for many Lay People who don’t know anything about what you are talking about. Ethics? We know about the moves. There was nothing ethical about the whole management of that. And the person that the article is talking about apparently had a lot to do with it. From what I have been able to find out last night, is that there are a select few (and the above-mentioned person is in that group too) who are holding the Executive Committee and the President hostage. They get the committee to vote something and then the administrators carry out the plan, but not the way the Committee designed it to work. Lay People need to get involved. We do not need to wait until Constituency to go to the microphone and act all crazy. That is what I can’t stand about how the regional conferences operate. The Administrators know what’s going on, the Pastor’s know what’s going on and plenty laypeople know what’s going on. But, they won’t say nothing, they just let everything snowball. IF SOME OF THIS INFORMATION IS NOT CORRECT, WILL SOMEBODY RESPOND! AND IF IT IS CORRECT, SAY SO.

    Like

  34. Anonymous says:

    Whether true or not, how important is ethics in leadership.

    Like

    • Ethics is incredibly important. Only I am confused to what you are speaking to. Are you speaking to the validity of these reports or are you speaking to the actions of Pastor Cox and the Executive Committee to allow the ministerial director to hold a vote on the Committee and not relinquish his seat to a member of his surrounding churches?

      Like

    • COMMON SENSE says:

      ANONYMOUS: Why make a comment that seems to be unclear. Say what you mean!
      If you want to defend the pastor then defend him so we can know what is truth. BUT ARE YOU AFRAID?

      Ethics and leadership are like hamburger and the bun. With out the bun there is no hamburger and with out the meat their still is no hamburger. A hamburger sandwich needs the bun plus the meat to be called a hamburger sandwich. Ethics with out leadership can’t be ethical and leadership with out ethics is not leadership. Both need a horse to ride on. (No, I am not a vegetarian)

      In the situation mentioned in the blog above it is either true or false. But let’s agree that something unethical happened. If that is true then leadership failed the students or the students failed the pastor. If this is true then the students are out of some cash.

      I say the pastor failed the students because anyone who has been at Andrews knows that most students are dirt poor. And if they were mistreated by the pastor they would report it because they have nothing to lose and some pay back to gain. But most pastors and lay persons are familiar with the cleric. WOULD HE CUT THE FUNDS OFF FROM THE STUDENTS FOR INSECURE REASONS? IS HE POSSESSED BY ANOTHER DENOMINATIONAL MINISTERIAL CULTURE? STAY TUNED READERS!

      In the case of the ministerial leader–if he has placed politics over service then his ethics is flawed. Both men are on two or more important boards that determine the fate of pastors and the present situation of the Conference. Should they not be held under an interrogation light since they are out to gain something politically? Ministers have told me that many times the President has said publicly that the director has to move. Is the President afraid to move him or can’t because he is impotant? STAY TUNED!

      COMMON SENSE

      Like

  35. A LAY PERSON says:

    Not sure where all this information is coming from, but the past info has never been refuted, so I tend to believe this is probably for the most part true. I’m also asking where are the lay people. ANY LAY PEOPLE know what is going on? If you do, just spit it out – it seems the Conference is not good at informing us about anything. For those that do not know, we have a conference website, the purpose is to keep us informed.

    Like

    • Thank you for your response. As a lay person myself I can tell you that most church members do not see how these events can impact our conference globally. Most of my fellow church members are only concerned and stay appraised of the events happening in their own churches. This was the predominant reason I began this forum for discussion. If our conference had one I would have joined it.

      Like

  36. ICE says:

    For those who read this blog might ponder if this article is correct or false.INVESTIGATE THE FACTS and your eyes will open. The methodological approach is first through observation to substantiate an alleged fact or theory. THIS ARTICLE HAS MUCH CRED!

    What disciplinary actions have the current administration taken? Some pastors have been sent to Boot Hill one less atrocities. Lay people, where are your?

    Like

  37. It’s crying time again because the Administrators are afraid of the little rat pack!These little punks should be sent packing and if the administrators age fearful of being exposed for their mess,they should be sent packing too!Why in world should we wait until September ?We should do it now!

    Like

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